Afghanistan? - Part 2
xfdhe CAMPBELL-BROWN-01
<Show: CAMPBELL BROWN>
<Date: November 12, 2009>
<Time: 20:00>
<Tran: 111201CN.V08>
<Type: SHOW>
<Head: How Many U.S. Swine Flu Deaths?; Exit Strategy For
Afghanistan? - Part 2>
<Sect: News; International>
<Time: 20:00>
BROWN: You were taken prisoner, as we told people a moment ago, after being shot down in the first Gulf war. Clearly, this type of mental training that we've been talking about wasn't available to you. But how much of your belief in this came from your own experience and how you approached it?CORNUM: Well, my belief in the -- in the -- in the sort of philosophy that people can control how they think about problem solving and that you have a lot to say about what happens, that I've always believed that. I believe that we can teach it because what I recognized in people who come in the Army or I deal with outside the Army, they really have a wide variety of problem solving and coping skills and -- and it's an opportunity to make people more successful.
I'm convinced now we've already sent 100 people through this training here at the University of Pennsylvania. We have 154 of them here and a satellite group down at Fort Jackson, and the majority of them have already come to us and said this is really, really good. We need do this for the Army. I'm using it already even when I just call home.
BROWN: Right. So, how would you counsel or what would you tell the men and women who were survivors of the Fort Hood shooting? And do you think they should be deployed after all they've been through?
CORNUM: Well, I think that I would tell them that if there was anything that I or any other person in the Army could do for them, we would certainly do it. I would say to them that there's nothing you can do to bring the people back that were killed and it's a horrible tragedy.
But if you've been training for something for a long time and you're prepared and you're mentally ready, then I don't see that, you know, that allowing this tragedy to change what you do is kind of like letting the bad guys win.
BROWN: Well --
CORNUM: That -- and so, you know, just like -- just like changing our whole lifestyle in America because of the terrorists would be letting them win.
BROWN: Well, General Cornum, I think the work you're doing is so interesting. I really appreciate your taking a few minutes to tell us about it. Thank you.
CORNUM: Thank you very much, Campbell.
BROWN: And when we come back, President Obama hitting the brakes right now on his decision on Afghanistan troop increases. If it really depends on how soon we can get out of there, then we want to know just what it would take to leave. And we're going to talk to another general about the endgame on that front when we come back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: President Obama is now on his way to Asia but still hanging over him right now, the big question of whether to send more men and women to Afghanistan. Today Press Secretary Robert Gibbs said that decision would not only include a plan for putting troops in but also for how to get them out. And while some are questioning the president for not moving for quickly on a decision, former Vice President Al Gore is backing him. Take a look at what he said.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LARRY KING, CNN ANCHOR: Could the president deploy 40,000 more troops as General McChrystal wants? There are other experts saying don't pull out. Where -- where does Al Gore stand?
AL GORE, FORMER VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Well, I think he's doing the right thing.
KING: By thinking about it?
GORE: And taking the time not just to think about it but to get the best information available, to have his war cabinet involved with him in deep deliberations, and to focus on what the exit strategy will be.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: And you can see the full interview with Al Gore at the top of the hour on LARRY KING LIVE. Right now, we want to know exactly what needs to happen, what is that exit strategy before troops can get out of Afghanistan. To help us with this is retired Army General George Joulwan and he's a former NATO supreme allied forces commander.
General, welcome to you.
GEN. GEORGE JOULWAN, U.S. ARMY (RET.): Good evening.
BROWN: So I'm going to try to simplify this as much as we can without oversimplifying it. The president says he wants an exit strategy in Afghanistan. You say there are basically three key things that have to happen before we're able to leave, and I want you to walk us through it.
Number one, security. Meaning some kind of functioning police force on the ground to protect people.
JOULWAN: Yes. And I think this is part of the assessment that needs to be made. Do you agree on these goals? And that is part I believe of McChrystal's counterinsurgency strategy is that you have a police force that can provide safety in the Afghan neighborhoods. You have a functioning military that can protect its borders and sovereignty and prevent the Taliban and other terrorist groups from using that country for training.
And then you have functioning government ministries that can provide the sort of electricity and energy and other services for the people. Now, that part of the counterinsurgency strategy that it's going to take some time to do. You don't want to do that. You can go to a counterterrorist strategy which is just chasing the Taliban and not worrying about capacity building within the Afghan government.
BROWN: OK. But let me stop you there. Because, OK, if these are the three essentials, police force to protect the people, a military to ensure sovereignty in the country, a functioning government, then how far are we from able -- from being able to achieve those three goals? How realistic is it that those goals are achievable given where we are right now?
JOULWAN: We have been involved in Afghanistan for over eight years. If you implement this strategy and that's part of the counterinsurgency, it's going to take years. How many years is up to the Afghan government. You need to have a legitimate partner in all of this that can help provide those goals that we talked about.
BROWN: So, let me stop you, though. If that's the most essential sort of first step, we don't have that according to, you know, our own U.S. ambassador in Kabul right now. There is not a government we can trust that we believe is a partner. That's a huge problem. So does that mean we should hold off on sending any more troops until that problem can be addressed?
JOULWAN: That's why we have this debate going on because we don't have a legitimate partner. And so you have to -- you have to have some clarity here in what is the mission, what is this end state that we want to achieve. And that's -- that's the debate that I think rightfully is going on right now. What do we want the outcome to be? And that is still undecided.
BROWN: OK. And to your -- let me go back and let you finish your point. I interrupted you.
OK. If it's not, if what I laid out is too lofty a goal to have, you know, police, military and a functioning government, then the other option is what you pointed at which is just basically going in and trying to kill as many Al Qaeda and Taliban as we possibly can. Right?
JOULWAN: And that's what needs to be discussed. We're oversimplifying here. But I think the ambassador from Afghanistan, Karl Eikenberry, has come in with that we don't have a legitimate partner right now, or at least a partner that can provide the outcome where we're heading. There's corruption, there's narco trafficking.
And so there's a political dimension to this. Every bit as important as the military part. We're focusing on 40,000 troops. We're not focusing on the political dimension inside of Afghanistan. And I would urge that we focus on that because that determines what this end state, this outcome we talked about, whether it's achievable or not.
BROWN: And given that the goals are unclear, that probably explains why the president is still deliberating on this and taking his time and doing it.
JOULWAN: And it's very important that we bring our allies into this. NATO is also responsible for Afghanistan. Part of this surge if we're going to call it that, should be NATO forces. So it's a --it's very complicated but I think it's a very important decision that needs to be made and I think the president is right to take his time in doing it.
BROWN: All right. General Joulwan, with your perspective on this, we appreciate your time tonight. Thank you, sir.
JOULWAN: Thank you.
BROWN: Tonight, our special investigation. Secret societies. We are going to take you behind the scenes of Yale University's Skull and Bones for a look at what really goes on behind closed doors.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: Tonight, we continue our special investigation of secret societies with a look into Yale University's Skull and Bones. You're about to learn what only a powerful few ever find out what goes on at a club that's been shrouded in mystery for 177 years.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BROWN (voice-over): What really happens behind the padlocked doors of this windowless building? The tomb of Skull and Bones, Yale's oldest secret society. Its members include some of America's most powerful and privileged elite all sworn to secrecy.
ALEXANDRA ROBBINS, AUTHOR, SECRET OF THE TOMB : Skull and Bones' only purpose is to get its members into positions of prominence around the world so that they can elevate other members to similar positions. That's it.
BROWN: Alexandra Robbins broke through the wall of silence to write Secrets of the Tomb based on clandestine interviews with dozens of bonesmen. Only 15 Yalees (ph) get picked each year. The society includes at least three U.S. presidents, Supreme Court justices, and too many senators and CEOs to name. In 2004, Bush versus Kerry was the first all-bonesmen presidential election.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TIM RUSSERT, HOST, MEET THE PRESS : You're both were members of Skull and Bones, a secret society of Yale. What does that tell us?
SEN. JOHN KERRY (D), MASSACHUSETTS: Not much because it's a secret.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: And it's that secrecy that has allowed conspiracy theories to run wild on campus.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's great for the freshmen when they come and they see across an old campus and nobody really knows what goes on there.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: There are people who think that they run the world, and it's just a giant conspiracy.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If you haven't made a million dollars by the time you hit 35 or something, they give you a million dollars.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What I imagine is just like a dark room with a lot of people sitting around in hooded capes.
BROWN: No bonesmen has ever publicly revealed the truth, but it's believed the 15 juniors are selected each spring based on a mix of family connections and their accomplishments.
ROBBINS: Initiation is actually pretty silly. Members dressed in costumes. Skeleton costumes, devil costumes, other costumes. Somebody is dressed up as a (INAUDIBLE). The initiates have to do things like drink fake blood out of a skull.
BROWN: And share their deepest, darkest secrets.
ROBBINS: One of the first activities they participate in is called connubial bliss, where the sexual history during C.B., as it's called, each member must spend an evening standing in front of the other 14 bonesmen and recount his or her entire sexual and romantic history.
BROWN: Legend has it true bonesmen have gone to even greater lengths to prove their loyalty. According to one such story, Prescott Bush, George W. Bush's grandfather, was part of a group that broke into the Oklahoma burial place of the Apache chief Geronimo and made off with his skull. Judith Schiff, an archivist at Yale's library, says there is some evidence to support the claim.
JUDITH SCHIFF, CHIEF RESEARCH ARCHIVIST, YALE LIBRARY: There happened to be a letter there amongst the students who were friends from a friend of Prescott Bush who said he and Prescott Bush had, indeed, stolen the skull of Geronimo.
BROWN: While there is no independent information, Geronimo's grave was disturbed back in 1918, there are photos of skulls inside the Skull and Bones tomb.
SCHIFF: If you saw some of the earlier photographs of the society, their annual picture was always taken around a table in which there was at least one skull that they owned.
BROWN: So what's the payoff for all the secrecy? All the elaborate rituals? Well, here's the thing. Skull and Bones has a reputation of taking care of its own no matter the cost.
SCHIFF: They will come to the aid of families if a man dies unexpectedly without money. They will assist the widow and the children.
BROWN: Not only that, Schiff says, but they have their own private retreat. Deer Island off the coast of New York. And a world of ready investors and political contacts in the highest echelons of American society.
ROBBINS: Each member gets a catalog of the members of the society, where they live, what they do, a little bit about their resume, how you can contact them.
BROWN: But the biggest mystery of all, what exactly is the point? Setting aside all the legend and myth, what has kept the secret society alive for all these years? Good old fashioned networking for the super elite.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BROWN: And for a little more on members of Skull and Bones, we're going to talk about tonight's newsmaker, George W. Bush. Hear for the first time his take on what life is really like for him after the White House.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BUSH: Over the past months, I've had a little time to reflect on my years in office. There were some good days, and there were some tough days. But every day I was honored to represent a nation I love. I gave the job my all. I always did what I believed was in the best interests of our country. And I came home to Texas with my values intact.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: Tonight's newsmaker, former President George W. Bush talking for the first time on camera and in public about his retirement. It happened this afternoon at Southern Methodist University, the site of his future presidential library and institute. Take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BUSH: I'm pleased to report there is life after the White House. Laura and I are happy, healthy and home right here in the promised land.
I think she's the best former first lady in the nation's history. Although, I better be a little careful. Some competition in the family. You know, one of the joys of my time in public service has been watching our girls grow into professional women who are making a contribution to our society. Barbara has started a health NGO, and Jenna is a teacher. As you may have heard, she's also a correspondent for the Today Show, thus continuing the Bush family tradition of warm relations with the press.
Over the past months, I've had a little time to reflect on my years in office. There were some good days, and there were some tough days. But every day I was honored to represent a nation I love. I gave the job my all. I always did what I believed was in the best interests of our country. And I came home to Texas with my values intact.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: President George W. Bush.
At the top of the hour, former Vice President Al Gore. He is Larry King's live guest at the top of the hour. Up next, tonight's
Guilty Pleasure. The video we just can't resist from a former beauty queen who just won't go away.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: LARRY KING LIVE starts in just a few moments. Larry also play as part in tonight's Guilty Pleasure. Mike Galanos with the video we just can't resist -- Mike.
MIKE GALANOS, HLN PRIME NEWS: All right, Campbell. Larry's guest last night as we know, Carrie Prejean, the one-time Miss California USA. And she was not talking about why she just settled an ugly lawsuit with pageant officials. Let's watch.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KING: The agreement discusses the motive behind why each party agreed?
CARRIE PREJEAN, FORMER MISS CALIFORNIA USA: Larry, you're being inappropriate. You really are.
KING: What?
PREJEAN: So, I'm not going to talk about it.
KING: I'm asking the question.
PREJEAN: I'm not going to talk about anything that was discussed in mediation. It's completely confidential and it was a confidential settlement.
KING: All I'm asking -- so, all right. So what you're saying is in mediation, it was discussed why you were mediating?
PREJEAN: Larry, it's completely confidential.
KING: It was discussed.
PREJEAN: And you're being inappropriate.
KING: OK.
PREJEAN: OK?
KING: All right.
PREJEAN: You're being inappropriate.
KING: Inappropriate king live continues.
PREJEAN: Yes.
KING: Detroit, hello.
CALLER: Hi.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GALANOS: There you have it now. She began to take the microphone off. I guess there was an agreement that she was not going to take phone calls, but Larry apologized. She did return to the show. So awkward moments there, Campbell.
BROWN: All right. I have one thing to say about this.
GALANOS: Go ahead.
GALANOS: You make a sex tape, you don't get to call anybody inappropriate. Nobody. Not Larry, nobody.
That is it for us. Mike Galanos, thanks for sharing, Mike.
GALANOS: Thanks. Yes.
BROWN: We'll see you tomorrow. Have a good one.
Larry starts right now.
